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| HIS Royal Majesty, Ikenchukwu Keagborekuzi 1, Dein of Agbor Kingdom, Anioma, Delta State & Buhari |
HIS Royal Majesty, Ikenchukwu Keagborekuzi 1, Dein of Agbor Kingdom, Anioma, Delta State, recently met with President Muhammadu Buhari at Aso Villa, Abuja has opened up exclusively to Saturday Vanguard at his palace in Agbor. He spoke on burning issues in the country, including Niger-Delta and Buhari’s ministers. Excerpts:
We learned that you had an accident on Benin-Ore road recently; former President Olusegun Obasanjo was also involved in one along Lagos-Ibadan expressway, what do you say about Nigerian roads?
First and foremost we thank you for pointing that out. When you heard somebody had an accident, the next thing you do is to pray and thank God nobody is hurt. The state of the road for the record had nothing to do with the accident. It was simply unfortunate loss of control because of heavy rain.
And of course, when you are running in a convoy, if one is not careful, once the first escort has lost control, it is very difficult for the other cars to keep up the same pace. Therefore, please the state of the road for the record had nothing to do with this accident per se.
However, in Nigeria as a whole, yes, the state of the road is quite deplorable. I know that when I went to Warri to see Tompolo (High Chief Government Ekpemupolo) and others to discuss some issues concerning national security and appeal to those in the Niger Delta to be patient this moment in time in our history , I saw that the roads in Warri were absolutely deplorable.
I went to suggest to them that they should not go back to their agitations and give Mr. President some time to sort out issues. Actually, I went to pay a courtesy call to my brother, Olu of Warri and I found out that he had passed on.
The roads were very bad indeed, but as you know, we have a new President; we have a new Governor, Dr. Ifeanyi Okowa. His Excellency had on several occasions, told me specifically that the roads, whether at Delta South, Central and North senatorial districts are something of great concern to him. In addition, I am sure everybody in the country understands that this raining season has been something that we have never seen before.
We are in November now; the rains are still quite heavy, so both at the federal and state levels, the governments are asking for some patience. Mr. President is very keen; I understand that the Senate and House of Representatives recently visited some of states in the eastern part of the country to assure them that as soon as the rain stops and some funds made available, certainly, the appropriate agencies will address the problem.
The state of Nigerian roads is generally bad and unfortunately we lose many lives through them every year and it is certainly the responsibility of our governments. We are hoping that within the next few months, we shall see upsurge in the construction of the roads.
You visited President Buhari recently; we want to know what took you to Aso Villa?
First, he is my President. I had visited him in January 2014 to give my support and I will continue to visit him as my president throughout his tenure. He has always been somebody that I wanted to meet in the past because of his sterling qualities. I had not seen him since he won the election and since he became president.
I sent him a national congratulatory message via the newspapers and I thought it was necessary I paid him a courtesy call. There were also a number of issues that are quite pressing to me concerning national security, concerning the youths in particular. These were some of the issues I felt that I should bring up to him.
As a responsible Nigerian, I believe that if I see anything that is irregular, if I hear anything that is irregular or there is anything that I am not comfortable with, and I feel that it is very important, then, I will make my opinion and feelings known to Mr. President.
It is the same thing that I do with my governor, just like when he came back from India with the President, I called Dr. Okowa and we discussed the trip and what to do to move the state and country forward. Therefore, I am just being a responsible Nigerian.
I cannot recall that during former President Goodluck Jonathan’s six-year tenure that you want to see him?
That is very correct, it was not for sake of not trying. I tried several times to visit Jonathan, unfortunately and I will say categorically, those people that were around Jonathan, who caused him his problem, stopped many good people trying to see Jonathan. I know that Jonathan wanted to see me at a time.
However, I will continue to say, you can have a very good leader with a good heart and good intentions but if people who do not share his vision surround him, if people who do not share his goals surround him, they will hamper those good intentions severely. They were a number of people that were around Jonathan that did what hampered many good leaders, they block, they stop the right people from seeing him and it becomes quite frustrating.
Jonathan was the only president of this country that I was not able to see freely. I was able to see President Obasanjo very freely, Yar’Adua was not there for long but our correspondences were quite good. Unfortunately, I felt that those around Jonathan at a time choked him and distanced him from the Nigerian people. It was quite sad.
Nigerians want to know what you told President Buhari and what he said in response to the issues?
The issues that were quite pressing to me as I mentioned to you. Some few months ago, I went to see Niger Delta young man (referring to Tompolo)…I was worried by the problem we are having with Boko Haram.
I knew that the Niger Delta situation was a very sensitive one and I felt it was very important to see some of the boys in the Niger Delta, and after discussing with them, as a monarch, I felt I should go and let the President know exactly what I discussed with them and how I felt about the discussion with them .
I did just that, some of the issues I am sure you will understand, are sensitive national security issues and I will not discuss openly. We all understand that there is much sensitivity around the nation; I believe he is an honest man and he has good intentions for the country.
Once again, I will like to appeal to those around him not to choke him, they should not hide the truth from him, do not hide facts from him because at the end of the day… I believe Jonathan was a good man, I believe he wanted to do many good things but once the failures come, they will hang them around the President’s neck.
Therefore, I think it is very important that those who wish to help Mr. President should see him.
Before you met with Buhari, what were your impression about him and your current impression after meeting him?
Like I mentioned, I had met Buhari as far back as January 2014 and to be very fair, I do not want to make people think I am making this up. In my first meeting with the man, I was quite shocked by his humility. Eh, when you are or you have been in a position of power and you are still humble, that is quite a great thing for me.
The president is a very humble man, he is very meek and a well-mannered person. He knows how to control his emotions and he is a very intelligent man. One thing I do know about Mr. President is that he listens to what people are saying; he thinks about his answers and he deliberates. Humility is very important to me.
I will still always refer to President Obasanjo. I remember very clearly one time that I was on a Virgin flight back to London and I watched Obasanjo walk down the economy class, sitting down and talking with Nigerians.
But I dont think he is portrayed that way. The Obasanjo that people talk about is different. There is one thing I dislike about some Nigerians. When a Nigerian cannot get something from you, all of a sudden, you become the worst person in the world.
It is not a good thing. Because you did not get your way with somebody does not mean that you should now go on to castigate that person or to run that person down. Your relationship with people is always going to be different; there will be times our relationship, as we know each other, will be cordial.
May be a time in future, I might do something that could offend you or you may do something that could upset me, that should not lead me to start telling people that Emma Amaize is a horrible person or is not a good person because I know better.
So, we as Nigerians, we need to realize that the state of the nation is in a very sensitive place right now, one of things that is destroying us as a people is actually our mouth. We really do a lot of destruction to our brothers and sisters and to the nation as a whole with the way we discuss and talk so negatively about ourselves and is something that need to change.
Mr. President is a good man and he certainly has good intentions for the nation. I only pray that he is able to meet other people of like minds to help him move the country forward the way he wishes.
You said before you met Buhari you met with Tompolo, what was his impression of Buhari, which you conveyed to Mr. President and what is their attitude now after your visit?
We have spoken on the phone. I spoke with Tompolo and few others after my visit to Buhari and it was simply a matter of telling them, look, I have seen Mr. President, he understands your views, he understands where you are coming from.
Unfortunately, it is he, who wears the shoe that knows where it hurts, and unless you are living in the Niger Delta with these boys and going through what they are going through, you will never understand the struggle and the pains that they have. I know that certainly Tompolo has been a good leader to his people, he is certainly not happy with a number of situations.
One of the sad situations is about the Maritime University, the fact that it has not taken off by now, the fact that funds were approved in the past but have not been released up till now is unfortunate and a sore point in the Amnesty programme.
So many of them are still abroad, there were some few situations where they did not release money recently, it caused some embarrassment and some of them were sent home before the end of their courses.
Certainly, we are not living in a perfect world and there are many more issues that I believe the Niger Delta people need to discuss with the presidency in other for them to move forward and in order for us to have some form of peace. Just as I wish that Boko Haram and some of these people on killing spree will choose dialogue.
Why would anybody opt for violence to make any point? It is very embarrassing and sad that some Nigerians are willing to spend millions of naira to humiliate human beings instead of developing Nigeria.
Do you think Buhari can change this country with his ministers?
I would have personally liked to see new faces. Eh, I cannot talk about majority of these people because I do not really know them and I refuse to join Nigerians to castigate people that they have never met and interacted with. It shows a very low level of intellect to talk badly about somebody you do not know and interacted with.
In time, I will certainly have the opportunity to interact with some of these ministers because I am not shy of approaching government officials and telling them what I feel. Government officials are here to serve the citizens and people of Nigeria. Maybe so many people do not understand what the word representative mean, they represent us, they are not lord over us, they work for us, and they are civil servants and representatives of the people.
It is when you treat people in a derogatory manner that I’ll have issues with that. Certainly, I believe that this is a huge country, we have so many bright minds. I would hope that Buhari does not waste too much time with ministers who are not ready to work. I will certainly encourage him to drop any minister who is not working.
Some of them had the opportunity to show us what they could do in the past. Those like Babatunde Fashola, he did an amazing job in Lagos state even if some people disagree. I personally have seen some of his handiwork. He is a very intelligent man, I wish him the best. I am not trying to be tribalistic, I have to be very proud of my own – Dr. Ibe Kachikwu (laughter), and I think we already have one of the best ministers that we can possibly put forward.
I have interacted with him myself and to my complete and pleasant shock, he is one of the most intelligent people that I have come across. In addition to his intelligence, the humility is there, the eagerness to do more for the nation is there. I do not know many of the ministers. I think I met one of them. My appeal to them is to serve Nigeria well. Together with Mr. President let’s all move Nigeria forward and take it to the next level and stop suffering the way we are suffering now.
It has become increasingly clear that ex governors, ministers and others that had served their states and country are being picked up for one fraud or the other, where is this problem from , with the country or the individuals?
I think the problem is twofold; certainly with both the country and individual. The country because we continue to make laws every year but are we actually executing the laws, that is the problem of the country. This problem of the country encourages the individuals to continue to flout these laws.
If we are able to ascertain that somebody is involved in some type of criminal activity, be it fraud, rape, theft, grievous bodily harm to another individual, etc, there should be a punishment. It should not take so long in the court, they should deal with it as expeditiously as possible. This swill serve as a deterrent to others.
I promised Vanguard readers that I would ask your opinion about the public spat between the governor of Edo state and the former Minister of Niger Delta whenever I meet you again because they descended to the market square after you warned about it in our previous interview, what do you say?
I will like to urge Mr. President on this matter, if people in government decides to embarrass themselves in public, they are not just embarrassing themselves; they are embarrassing the entire nation. The moment you decide to take public office, you are no longer just representing yourself, you are no longer just representing the members of your household, you are now representing your country, state and local government. If you do not know how to control yourself, please remove yourself from the public eye.
Therefore, I appeal to Mr. President not to take it likely with any public official that decides to go on a rant in public. As a public official, you should not be ranting in public, have your point and make your point.
If you know as a public official that you are so upset that you might not be able to talk right there and then, there is nothing wrong in saying that you do not want to talk about the issue right now and give another date and time that you will be able to discuss the issue.
So far, how do you see the performance of Governor Okowa and your reaction to his tribunal victory?
I congratulated the governor as soon as I heard his victory at the tribunal. Delta state has always been clearly a PDP state. Okowa has always been a popular candidate, so it did not completely shock me that he was successful at the tribunal. He performed well as a senator.
So as much as I congratulate him on his victory, now is the time for him to start his honest work within the state. I look forward to him doing what I believe he can do for the state, which is making it one of the visible states in the country and a state that will work and move forward.
Certainly he needs the help of all Deltans, certainly at some point, one has to be a good sportsman. When you have lost at some point, you join to make what is on ground better. Am sure the opposition might have grievances, I am aware that Okowa has made overtures to the opposition to try and bury the hatchet. I hope that they are able to do that so that the state can concentrate on development and we can move forward as a people.
People said you were blunt with the immediate past former governor, Dr Emmanuel Uduaghan, I hope you will also be blunt with Okowa or are you going to give him pat on the back because he is from Anioma?
I do not give anybody a pat on the back even if you are my brother, sister, mother, related to me or because you come from any particular place, I give people a pat on the back depending on their performance and upon what you put forward as a human being. If you are a good person, you will get along with me, if you are not a good person, you will not get along with me.
Uduaghan, a misunderstood leader
People are different. Chief James Ibori is different from Dr Uduaghan. Ibori is currently in jail but he has friends more than many top Nigerians who are enjoying great freedom. That’s simply because of his type of person. Ibori was very open to friends and many others. I know Uduaghan. He is a very misunderstood person.
He is a nice person but who keeps to himself. It is just that he keeps to his own company alone. He is a very difficult man to read, he is a very intelligent man, therefore, when you say I was blunt with him, it depends on what the issue was.
I have a people that I am responsible for and if at a point I believe my people deserve something, I will speak out for their needs. I do not have a choice. I speak out for my people for I know I know my ancestor’s responsibility to the entire Delta North.
I am still trying to understand the country ,I just finished a nine- year tenure as chancellor of the University of Ilorin and all of a sudden, very unexpectedly, I have just been made a chancellor in a completely different country.
When I get there, I have to be very quiet, observant, I speak no word of French whatsoever, so I am going to be very patient and take time to understand both the students, staff and the country of Republic of Benin.
Trust is very important, I remember again, I always call on Obasanjo. We sat one day having breakfast and he said to me, ‘do you know what people do not like about me?’ I said what daddy? He said , ‘I am too blunt for them, I tell them the truth and often, human beings do not want to be told the truth.
I enjoy hearing the truth, whether it favors me or not, I enjoy hearing the truth. I enjoy criticism, but criticism can be in a negative way, criticism can be in a positive way. I am not perfect myself, so we all strive to learn from each other and that is why God said do unto others as you want others to do unto you.
Because truly, you do not know whom the man or woman standing next to you is, He could be truly God right there in disguise and you tell that poor person, my friend, get out, you do not know that is Christ testing you; you just lost your chance to enter heaven. Therefore, the best thing you do is to respect others, as you want others respect you in life
You are becoming a veteran chancellor at your age, yesterday; it was University of Ilorin, today, a university outside Nigeria, it appears there is something in you that some of us do not know yet?
I believe that President Obasanjo saw that a young man as a chancellor would do a lot to invigorate the students of the University of Ilorin and that was why he took me there. I had an amazing time in Ilorin; the students are very disciplined and were hardworking. Their lecturers were dedicated to their job.
One thing that impressed me was the judicious spending they made of government funds. Every year I went there to commission one project. This new university in Cotonou, Republic of Benin, of course it is a new university, they have been very smart to have a new president of the university, Bishop Adeyemi, this young man will be able to grow with this university.
Am 38 years old now, the president and founder is 43, so if we are able to work together, there will be many amazing things that we are going to do for the university.
You just talked about God; the Bible says the heart of the king is in the hands of God, in your tenure so far as king, have you really been felt God controlling your heart and how?
In my every breath. I will not join people who find easy ways to make wealth in this nation and damn their reputation. I have a responsibility to my people, it shows that the Almighty God gave this throne to me and it passes from me to my next generation, I do not want it damaged. I do not have the right to destroy this throne, so in everything that I do, I try to be straightforward, I try to be honest, I try not to feel myself above others and I try to be as clear as I am about how I feel.
I do not hide my feelings from people, as a king, I sort matters out. As a king, I have a responsibility to judge issues and depending on how I judge such issues, so will my Father in heaven judge me and I fear that judgment. I love but I also fear the Almighty God. These are two different things and we must have both when we are dealing with people.
In Ife kingdom, we now have an Ooni -elect, in Warri kingdom, we also have an Olu-elect, what does this signify to you?
Once again, I want to say my condolences to the people of Warri and Ife kingdoms for the demise of two great and wonderful men. In fact, just last night, I was on YouTube and I was watching a not so clear procession of the installation of the former Olu of Warri and it almost brought tears to my eyes. To see my friend again and to see him whole and hearty, he was dear to me but with age comes change.
He has had his time on the throne, he has moved on to a new person. The former Ooni, who was a very good friend and was like a father figure to me had a very blessed time on the throne. So these great kingdoms now have elects, who will very soon ascend the thrones, it is a glimmer of hope for the future.
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